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Ukraine, a precurser to WW3 ?

ukraine russia troops war

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#1 Divinelysian

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:38 PM

Cause:

Ukraine was hit hard by the fincancial collapse in 2008, and the EU wanted to help the ukrainians by giving financial aid but due to ukraine not being part of the EU there were some "catches" but they were pretty harmless as they just wanted some trading treaties and eventually the ukraine might have even invited to the EU, which many ukrainians wanted. 

 

Russia however didn't want this, and pretty much threathened that if they made treaties with the EU they would stop their trading and stuff. For example "closing the gaspipes" and because the ukrainian gouvernment is pro-russian they agreed to that. However the public opinion was different, if anything they WANTED to join the EU, esp if it meant better economy,.. 

 

Result:

Riots. Under the raising pressure the president of Ukraine was pretty much overthrown but the pro-russian gouvernment asked help of Russia, claiming that ultranationalists are trying to take over the country.

 

Putin, who claimed that the dissolvment of the soviet union was the biggest mistake in the 20th century, ceased this opportunity to stealthy "assist" the pro-russians under the cover of protecting russian citizens in Ukraine.

 

There are now like 15.000 Russian troops in the Krim (crimea) area surrounding ukrainian military bases. They also moved a part of its navy near the ukranian coastal areas.

 

(Some of this reminds some people of the war in Georgia. They had an inside conflict and then russia invaded)

 

Ukraine asked the UN to stop Russia's invasion. "The West" already condemned this invasion and asked Russia to pull their troops back, but because they have pretty no leverage to use, Putin just rejected them. Currently their are many propaganda heroes(muscovites) working in the media so the russian people wants the army to invade.

Why this title?

Putin's regime is pretty much pro- soviet... if anything they want to retake all the countries and make it the soviet union again. Georgia, ukraine... what if more and more aggressive actions? 

 

America + UN (without russia obv) putting more troops... conflicts... leading to war.... China would jump in on the Russian side...  NK might take the chance to attack south korea ... 

 

I mean... It's possible.. 


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#2 hans_gruber

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:25 PM

it's just the cold war heating back up again. something it's been doing for a while.

 

china has been waging economic and cyber warfare on NATO for the past decade and winning quite handily while aggressively exploiting the 3rd world's resources in ways american corporate won't even touch( and they can  be down right dirty as illustrated by american adventures in iraq and afghanistan over the past decade).

 

russia has been running a faux democracy since putin came into power with a parliament which is nothing more than a rubber stamp comittee for party leader czar comrade putin.

 

china is reheating up the space race with missions to the moon, and has public plans to do so. while annexing new territory in the SEA region unilaterally without much more than tense flybys from NATO forces.

 

meanwhile NATO forces have squandered their moral authority and political power with adventures in iraq and afghanistan, since their military and political leaders mistakenly believed the cold war ended when the berlin wall fell.

 

while america itself is increasingly more extreme politically and polarized both politically socially culturrally and economically. basically in many ways becoming the very things that the ameroeuro propaghanda machine charged the soviets as being evil because of.

 

bush dubya also made the stupid mistake of nearly reigniting the nuclear arms race by greenlighting anti ICBM shield defence program under the guize of protecting from terrorists. yes because farmers and peasants have ICBMs. totes.

 

meanwhile the narrative in america is that their own president is the real enemy, and maybe putin isn't such a bad guy after all. in fact sedition has become mainstream in america, and the rest of us get to bear witness to it as the ultimate reality tv show mmo stream on endless blogs "news" channels and other media.

 

 

tl;dr cold war never ended. american leaders have greatly diminished their political and moral sway, and and the west's leadership in america has extremely visible dissent in their own camp.



#3 TepiQQ

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:55 PM

Americans are currently at war with the devil. Police yourselves you damn hippies.


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#4 Sardoni

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:45 AM

Well the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand argueably started WW1 and Germany being displeased with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles (which ended WW1) effectly sparked WW2.  With all the olympic jokes Russia could be butt hurt enough to go for gold.

 

All it'll takes is the death of either one prominent figure, one child mistaken for an enemy soldier, or people angry about the world telling them to they have to be a certain way.

 

I hope this'll just end up simmering like the cold war crisis all over again.  At the very least I hope it lasts long enough to make a Red Alert 4 plot without doing too much damage.


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#5 NoYou

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:46 AM

What? No, not in the 201X, that's not enough to start a REAL war ( not some zerg that we call war, you know, attacking a "bad" country, with a 346456456 millions $ army where the bad guys "attack" with stones and 60 years old weapons ). And what? Attacking Russia? The 2 only countries that could be stupid/ballz'd enough to do that would be China or North Korea, the first one is an ally and the second one is... well.

Seriously, if Putin were to say "shut up, I'm taking over Ukraine", nobody would move

 

The medias have to scare people, Ukraine is good enough, it will end in some weeks, or less if they find something else more scary >_>

 

If we have a WW3 I'm pretty sure it would be arround israel.



#6 Neb

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:34 AM

It'd be amusing if after all this worrying about Israel and the Middle east, Europe causes the world war once again.

 

It's always Europe.

 

:indeed:



#7 Nobody

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 11:52 AM

I blame the Vikings.

 

I'm not certain there will ever be another WW honestly because with very few exceptions (N Korea is certainly one) there isn't enough nationalism left on a world wide basis to want to kill each other over it. There will continue to be more local controversy certainly because for generations there has been local controversy between certain groups and certainly dictators will start local controversy because they always have.

 

With that said, I do hope that Russia pulls out.


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#8 Neb

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 12:11 PM

Nationalism is easily drummed up on a needs basis.



#9 Neeni

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

There isn't a country that would be brave enough to fight Russia, just like NoYou said, maybe China and North Korea would, but they won't get involved into this for sure.



#10 hans_gruber

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:40 PM

china is allies with russia. and the often ignored nuclear super power. (there are 3). NK is allies with both.  

just think the world hasn't been this close to a nuclear exchange since reagan was president. :D



#11 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 02:55 PM

there are 5


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#12 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:47 PM

Actually now that I looked, there are 9.


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#13 hans_gruber

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

there are more than three nuclear powers. there are only 3 super powers.



#14 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:13 PM

There are 5 designated superpowers


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#15 hans_gruber

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

there are three.

 

china russia and the US. they have permenent seats on the UN security council and have veto power there.

 

generally speaking the other nuclear powers are proxies of the above.



#16 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:06 PM

Yes, that's why there's 5.


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#17 hans_gruber

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:06 PM

wat



#18 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:08 PM

"Go look it up"


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#19 hans_gruber

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:18 PM

i did look it up. for some reason wiki pedia only considers russia and the USA super powers.



#20 TepiQQ

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:26 PM

Oh. Silly Wiki. But anyways, here's to hoping no WW3 and Ukraine and Russia resolve their issue peacefully!

 

Now where's my pitchfork so I can poke the White House with it. NO TO MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE!


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#21 Divinelysian

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

Ukraine might ask china to help and be like

 

Hey China,

We asked America and the EU to intervene but they aren't doing anything, could you guys please calm russia down? If you manage to do that, america and the EU will be like omg China has guts, so much power, wow. Better be good to them. 

pl0x,

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#22 hans_gruber

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:02 AM

china is wrecking the eu and us with economic and cyberwarfare hard for the past decade+ though :sparkles:



#23 TepiQQ

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:36 AM

Ukraine might ask china to help and be like

 

Hey China,

We asked America and the EU to intervene but they aren't doing anything, could you guys please calm russia down? If you manage to do that, america and the EU will be like omg China has guts, so much power, wow. Better be good to them. 

pl0x,

Crimea

Doesn't the Crimeans want to join Russia anyway? Wasn't it only the minorities like the Tatar that does not want that? I don't see why China would help them since they don't want to be independent and become trading partners with China. No profit.


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#24 hans_gruber

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:15 AM

during the soviet era, moscow forced russians to immigrate to their satelite states and sort of culturally impose themselves on teh locals.

 

so as a result of that, a large part of ukraine which is a former warsaw pact nation, is russian speaking and mainly loyal to russia.

 

who are the people responsible largely for electing the former government, who then made a power play to become russia's nyerk again soviet era style after the EU offered them a bailout.

 

among the native population of ukraine, joining the EU is a very popular idea across a diverse set of groups, while the soviet era is not that distant a memory that they are reminded of by russia throwing their weight around at them economically with energy resources. but russia didn't like that much and offered the former government which was already friendly to them a deal to keep them away from the EU. which in turn led to the protests which topped that regime.

 

and now russia is leveraging the people they imported there as a pretext to the current occuptation of key strategic locations.



#25 Neb

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

Russia being Russia because Russia will never change.

 

The good news is that Russians are also REALLY good at killing Russians.

 

:sparkles:


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#26 hans_gruber

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:12 PM

Russia being Russia because Russia will never change.

 

The good news is that Russians are also REALLY good at killing Russians.

 

:sparkles:

some would say russians are the best at killing russians. even that russians specialize in killing russians.



#27 Crianna

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 08:46 AM

>Implying CIA didn't pay them to protest.

>Implying America won't profit from Russia invading Ukraine.

 

 

Plebs.



#28 hans_gruber

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:11 AM

it's not a matter of someone profiting or not.

 

 

it's a matter of who you'd rather profit from it.

 

 

i'll take corporate obamy over czar comrad putin easily.



#29 beobeokabeo

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 11:05 PM

Erm, the US has been doing the same shit in the Middle Eastern countries for 10+ years while Russia has had a lot less participation. Yes, Crimea is part of Ukraine, and yes, a big part of its population is Russian because a lot of Russians were forced to immigrate there and to other places. I've got 2 Ukrainian friends in university and both are from there. One is glad the Russians came because that will certainly prevent more deaths and destruction from riots, the other one thinks it's complete bullnyerk because Russia just wants to keep Ukraine as its lapdog, so there really 2 opinions about it. Yes, Russia might want to use this last chance it has before Ukraine joins the EU to add Crimea to its territory, but the soldiers there at the moment are preventing civil war.

 

What can I say... I'm from Bulgaria. If Russia stops the gas to Ukraine, all Eastern European countries will be screwed over, including mine. If anyone tries to do anything Russia will stop it. They did do it before... and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have let Ukraine just join the EU like that. It might be the CIA that organized the riots to throw down the pro-Russian government, it might be Russia's clever plan for invading with a justifiable cause. In most Eastern European countries(ex-soviet and not alike), there have been a lot of protests in the past year(some ongoing from the summer in my country). It just looks like some big conspiracy indeed.

 

Also, if there is a third wold war I'm certain they won't use nukes as they aren't that retarded... and even if China were to go out alone versus everyone it would win. 1/6 of the world's population under Communism. Need I say more?


Edited by beobeokabeo, 09 March 2014 - 11:13 PM.


#30 Neb

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:09 AM

You didn't say much aside from 'US is BAD so Russsia should be BAD too!'






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